
This topic requires understanding of two subjects - spirituality and humanity. I shall take up the latter first for chronological discussion. Humans have the most developed brain and related neuro-system in all the known creatures of the universe. This development has been there because humans have been using it, and so evolving it. This features differentiates the human-beings from other creatures. In other words, we can say that humans are those creatures who make maximum use of their intellect. Because of this usage, humans are the most civilized creatures on earth.
So, if there is something that impedes usage of intellect by a human-being, or makes him/her inferior or subordinate to anybody other than a human-being, is dehumanizing him/her and thus is a poison to him/her existence as a human-being.
Next, we come to spirituality, which I shall take its usual meaning without going into etymology of the word. India is a leader of the world in the field of spirituality, wherein it is so deeply entrenched in the life styles of majority of people that its erasure seems to be impossible. But, I must add here that it is not so because of logical thinking of the people but because of inheritance from the ancestors and society in general. It catches a new-born like a flu virus and goes on deepening with age and more and more contacts with the outside world.
Spirituality is not a science because it has inner contradictions and every one has its own perceptions different from all others. Even amongst spiritual gurus, there is no unanimity on the subject - every one defining it differently and practising it differently. It has multiple tools, like - God; soul; yantra, tantra and mantra; astrology; fate; past, present and future births; religions and sects; meditation, yoga, pranayam; etc. which are all devised by some human-beings at one time or the other. All are based on fictitious assumptions and hypotheses.
Now, let us see - how it affects humanity. Firstly, it subjugates the humanity to fictitious character called ‘God’. Fictitious because it exists nowhere and performs nothing. Otherwise, human race would not have gone so low on moral character, particularly in a country where it is practised maximum. Ask yourself, do we Indians have a good moral character in general. I find 99 percent of Indian masses telling lies to each other, encroaching public or others properties, involved in thefts of public utilities like electricity, water, etc, polluting air, water and soil by their bad civic habits without any care for others. And we are the most spiritual people of the world. Does it establish a relationship between spirituality and immorality?
Secondly, spirituality tells us that everything is pre-designed for us, written in our fate, so we need not make any efforts, every event will occur on its own. Should this teaching not make us inactive? If somebody is not inactive, he has no faith in spirituality.
Thirdly, all spiritual gurus tell us that we should not run after material things, and simultaneously we find that all the gurus are very strongly chasing material things. Do they mean that the disciples should not compete with them in their chasings?
Fourthly, spirituality spreads terror of divinities, hell, death, etc. amongst human race to make its head low devoid of self-respect and self-confidence.
Fifthly, some spiritual practices tell us to block our minds from moving around which is the mind’s most natural trait Some practices tell us not to breath naturally or not to feed our body with its natural need of air. Some practices tell us not to blink our eyes for long durations to keep them away from their naturally designed practice of blinking. in all such practices, we are drived towards becoming un-natural. Does being un-natural make us healthy and happy?
The greatest sermon of spirituality is ‘nishkaam karma’ or ‘deeds without objectives. Has any body on this earth, including its so-called preacher, done anything without an objective, or can any body will ever do so? A knowledge without applicability can never be a knowledge, it is merely a burden.
In all the above things and all other related matters, there is no application of a human brain to find his own way but just to follow the others - somebody above, may be it is some guru or some divinity.
With all the above logics, spirituality is against humanity in all its senses. now, I come to the question - why it is so designed or what is the objective behind? with all the deep thinking on the subject, I have reached the conclusion that spirituality is psycho-political tool to keep a tab on masses and rule them psychologically and then politically, and then financially. All spiritual gurus are not only psychological rulers of their disciples but also their economic exploiters. I think, Indians are in a very deep slumber, they need to be awakened.
IT IS NOT JUST India -people are of the same spieces no matter where them live but the brainwashing of borders and flags make us think different and the stronger in thought will make the weaker think as them ,to change is to wipe out us humans and start over again
We are an animal of emotion and it gets us in all kinds of illogical trouble
Remember only 4 out of 10 humans new of earth or universe —so all of mans conscious thoughts are not true
Take care my fellow conscious HUMAN!
I appreciate very much your concern for those who are not conscious humans and are in majority on the earth. They need to be taken care of, but sacrificing the rest for their sake is also not advisable. Just thinks, who works for human progress around the globe - conscious 40 percent, or the unconscious 60 percent. It is a relationship like that of driver of a cab and passengers in the cab. True, passengers have to be carried, but the driver’s significance can not be ignored. If passengers are not there, the cab can be kept moving on, but if the driver is perished, passengers can not be saved either.
Spirituality does not necessarily have to be related to the concept of God. Religion/God and spirituality are not synonymous.
Precisely, no two words are synonym. Similarly, religion and spirituality are not synonym, but these are different faces of the same coin. Spirituality has many widely varying aspects, God and Religion are included in that. From you, I would like to know precisely what this term means in Philipines. It may be a new knowledge to me.
Ram Bansal
Spirituality is something that helps you to stay in coordination with the nature thus making life. It is about understanding fellow creatures, not only humans but everything in the creation. Have you ever tried to talk to a bird sitting on your perch? Try this and see what happens...
It never said that leave things alone.. whatever is bound to happen will happen etc... What you mentioned are the preachings from different religions that arose from the retrospective thinking of individuals...
As regards India practising spirituality, INDIA IS FAR BEHIND IN PRACTISING SPIRITUALITY... It is more into religions and castes... Were India to practice spirituality, INDIA WUD HAVE BEEN A HEAVEN... I have noticed the west practising more sprituality than INDIA and the so called spiritual nations: Tibet, China etc.
Hope this clears your confusion. SPIRITUALITY ADDS PEACE TO YOUR LIFE, not by sitting your eys closed with mind diverting elsewhere but by showing respect to each and every element in the creation. On the other hand, it is Religionism that DIVIDES and creates obstacles...
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Arun Kumar M.
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I am glad that some people in India are applying their minds on serious subjects like spirituality. My article’s focus is India, where it is misunderstood as something like a link to divinity. You ask some persons, and will have a different meaning from each. I said in my article, ”I shall take its usual meaning without going into etymology of the word”.
Etymologically, spirituality must mean ’beng concerned with essence of life’, as I can make out.
Just take an adjective use of the word ’a very spiritual person’ and ponder what does it mean in India. In Indian context, generally spirituality and religiosity are considered synonyms.
Sorry friend, if I have troubled you by my limited knowledge of the word.
Ram Bansal
Mr.Bansal I agree that it’s difficult to honour the attributes of spirituality in our times.You have cited falling standards.I agree with your observations.
But like to ask you does the presence of a quack can ever tarnish the importance of medical science.The world is playground of good and bad elements.Why are you taken aback by the dominance of bad people? Don’t you know that Pandavas are always lesser than Kauravas?Should that deter Krishna from glorifying the power of Dharma(Religion)?
What are you trying to preach Bansalji? Should be become worshipers of ”Adharma”(Anti-Religion) ?Instead of shedding tears over falling standards of spirituality or for that matter ridiculing the essence of spirituality,it’s time to resurrect the lost glory of spirituality.That will create better scenario.There is no point in cursing spirituality.
If everyone is not honouring the elements of spirituality,what has prevented you from doing so?Why don’t you set better precedents?If you cannot do that then just stop cursing spirituality.Curse materialism.
You have raised very relevant questions in your comment. I am grateful to you to provide me an opportunity to explain my viewpoint.
First, spirituality and such other things are being preached in India since the times of Mahabharat. Tell me a single example who had become really super-human through practising such a practice. This is an endless path designed to keep us involved and be ruled by the designers.
Second, Pandavas were no dharmatma, born out of illicit relationships of their mother, lost their wife in gambling. You wish to be a follower of those.
Krishna was a dirty politician, even worse than our present politicians. He managed to kill great warriors through his trickery.
A person becomes what his diety is. India’s character crisis has seeds in Krishna’s character. Please think coolly, logically, and don’y get blinded by your inherited devotion to anybody. I request to please see the first post of my blog http://indiainperil.blogspot.com which is a result of my last 15 years research on Indian history. Please remember that ’Myths are myths because they are different from realities’.
Ram Bansal
I do believe that all are trying to acquire something.Desire is root cause of man’s existence.You have dealt with very interesting and complex issue.Since I am running short of time, I do not intend to touch that issue.I would you like to read Indian philosophy.Probably,you need to read Swami Vivekananda,Radhakrishnan,Raman Maharishi and ,above all, Sri Aurobindo.I know you don’t like to be under influence of other thinkers.Even I am also against too much reading,especially reading devoid of reflection.
In nutshell, I believe that we all are on this planet called Earth to acquire something.We are product of desires and are chasing one or other desires.May be someone is chasing a beautiful lady,someone is chasing a dream of a having his own home, someone wants to own a car, someone want to be saint,someone want to be a mafia etc..etc..But there comes a time, after many births, to gain real knowledge-the knowledge that deals with art of self-realization.In other words,it’s an attempt on the part of conscious individuals to rise above all sorts of desires.Indian philosophy believes in total liberation.That’s possible.We are all in the process of evolution.
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I see a pattern, but my imagination cannot picture the maker of that pattern. I see a clock, but I cannot envision the clockmaker. The human mind is unable to conceive of the four dimensions, so how can it conceive of a God, before whom a thousand years and a thousand dimensions are as one? (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, 2000 p. 208)
We know nothing about [God, the world] at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. Possibly we shall know a little more than we do now. but the real nature of things, that we shall never know, never. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, Page 208)
I have already stated name of few gentlemen in my comment addressed to Wayne.The list of such individuals is endless.But I feel that likes of Sri Aurobindo, Swami Viveknanda, Guatam Buddha and Einstein ,to name a few, were really super-beings.Now don’t say that even these individuals were under the awe of spiritual myths..ha..ha.
They all were ideal manifestations of spiritual essence or the Great Self.I disagree with your observations related with Lord Krishna.They are childish and absurd.Probably,they don’t even deserve refutation.
Don’t worry.I don’t believe in blind faith.So I don’t the risk of being carried away by the ”inherited devotion”.
Thanks for letting me know your ideals. I beg to differ with you on Vivekananda, who could not save his normal life and perished early. Shri Arvind is worth reading and I draw inspiration from him. My other ideal is Kabir, and no body else from your list. Secondly, I do not agree with you at all on rebirths theory. We born here and get perished here without any thing previous or later. I again request you to please think in terms of reality with your mind and not get driven by human society’s traditional enemies who have been dominating India in every field by hook or crook. Intellectualism is not in following unproved philosophies but in pioneering what can be logically proved.
Your skepticism is devoid of substance.You are mired in ignorance.You have may have read bogus literature related with spirituality(probably so-called progressive literature of the communists) but you have not bothered to read authentic literature dealing with Indian philosophy.You even don’t have basic knowledge of tenets of Hindu philosophy.I have know problem with your queries.But your queries do suggest that you know nothing about Indian philosophy even as you claim to be in company of Mahesh Yogi and Osho etc. I am saying so because you suggest” Intellectualism is not in following unproved philosophies but in pioneering what can be logically proved.”.
Let me tell you that Indian philosophy is devoid of logical fallacies.It’s another thing that it has no place for likes of you who are more interested in satisfying their preset mindset.It has been hallmark feature of Indian philosophy to allow the seekers to come up with logical thought patterns.At the same time,like Einstein, it makes it very clear that matters of faith are beyond the realm of intellect.Is that clear to you?
Probably, that’s why it’s better for likes of you to preach market-oriented theories than come out with bogus proclamations in regard with Indian spirituality.Let me also tell what’s first step in direction of attaining spiritual knowledge:Have a proper bent of mind.If you don’t have that,just don’t dare to knock on the door of spirituality.
Once both Asuras and Devas went to have spiritual knowledge.Both came up with different versions of knowledge even as they came to hear the same thing at the same time.That’s the case with you.Like the Asuras you are interpreting things at par with your corrupt mindset.
You have asked to Rohan : Tell me - have you found a single self-realized person on this earth?
You have got the answer and yet you ask again.Ramakrishna Paramhansa,Raman Maharishi, Sri Aurobindo, Swami Viveknanda and Swami Sivananda , to name a few.Sadly ,the list is too long.It’s another thing that it’s very difficult to convince a person interested in calling day a night!!!
”What is real? How do you define real? If you’re talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is simply electrical signals interpreted by your brain.” -The real to one is never real unless formed yourself like your own entity and not a mix of two -then to cast your own future and actions and reactions-hum -that would produce more gods
I PUT NO ONE ABOVE ANYONE ELSE
We came empty and leave empty and the fewer conscious talk to the fewer conscious thinking they speak for all
The only reason i quoted Einstein or anyone else and by the way i find the same kinds of flaws of thinking in them as well making them equal to all the conscious humans ,the reason is humans are so intimidated by intelligence that unless you have a name and letters after your name ,no one takes what you say seriously ,it is a trick of nature to follow the strongest genes to generate stronger genes
I FOLLOW NO ONE AND WANT NO ONE TO FOLLOW ME, AS I WILL LEAD YOU TO NOWHERE LIKE ALL OTHERS
In the animal world their messages are clear short and none confusing
Let a human speak and forever seek
Let a human act and they will be more exact
Do you know that Gautama Buddha, Jesus Christ etc. had got so much spiritual powers that they were able to heal people with a mere touch of their hands? It was called ’touch-healing’ and today’s scientists are doing research on it. Today’s Reiki is based on that. Its all about the power of the mind. Modern scientists don’t believe in the mind at all, let alone in its power. But blind faith in God empowers you and without logic. Rational thinking and objectivity has limitations. I wonder why intellectuals try to do-codify that which is beyond the intellect.
I am aware of the wonderful revelations of Vedic Era.We were much ahead in all the fields .We had civilization when other races have not even come in existence.
I agree with your observation that it’s the era of scientific superstitions.Rationality is the new watchword.Ironically , such rationality is producing more and more frustrated and broken souls.Probably, that’s why foreigners are more interested in Indian spirituality after leading a long life in company of rationality.
The minute a person realises his self in the deepest states of medication, he becomes self-realised and that’s the end. I feel that it is the communists and the atheists who are trying to degrade spirituality so that they can gain control through the backdoor. Look at Kerala and W.B. and China. There is absolute lawlessness and human rights violation, but, even the media refuses to report them. They report human rights abuses in other states. Kerala and W.B. has the least crime rate because the police in both states simply refuse to book a case involving CPI and CPM cadres.
I cannot comment on Mahabharata and Ramayana because I haven’t read them. But all I can say is that materialism that you are advocating as the aim of life, indirectly, will wreak havoc with humanity. We have seen enough of that. In the name of spirituality and religions, wars have been fought. Doesn’t mean spirituality is bad. I have experienced medication myself, in the most earliest stages and I can say that it gives immense peace. Unlike the short-sighted material quests. Sir, on one hand you claim that you should reply on objectivity alone. On the other hand, you are an atheist. Can you prove me that there is no God? By God, I mean, a higher power. Can you prove that spiritual leaders are corrupt? Many are corrupt. Many are not. Like any field for that matter. So, your own statements are in conflict.
Please be a realist, don’t go by what others say. Tell me - have you found a single self-realized person on this earth? Have you met a single person fully recovered by yoga and meditation practices and without use of medicines? My dear, when we talk of the world, you talk of nature, and when I tell you to be just natural you intend to be artificial in breathing and mind-control. Please think logically. We have been cheated for more than 1000 years under slavery, we have been misguided by the cunning persons to get engrossed in such impractical things and they keep on ruling us. Tell me a single society in the world which has been under slavery for such a long time without raising its head in revolt. Rhere must be a reason for our deadly passivity of 1000 years. Please wake up from the slumber, live in the present. If some Buddha was great 2500 years ago, he is not going to help you today. And if you are sure that his path was right, follow his path, don’t just praise and go the reverse way. Please be practical.
Medical science is experimenting with your yoga and is very selective, while we are all encompassing preachers of practices which we ourselves don’t follow.
RamDev has a business of over 10,000 crores out of his trickery on innocent souls like you.
For your information, I practised spirituality under Maharishi Mahesh for 8 long years and started loosing my otherwise sharp memory. I practised under Rajneesh and found it a mere psychological game and nothing else.
Lastly, my request to you is to see my article on this site - Define SPIRITUALITY - An Open Request and educate me on the subject.
I am not just going by what others say. I am going by what I experienced. I have done meditation, prayers and Yoga for a short duration and in such a short duration, I felt very calm and composed. Yes, I have seen people who have been cured by yoga and pranayam. I have seen many people who had high B.P. and after regular practise of Pranayam, they not only lowered their B.P. but they become absolutely normal. Some such persons have become devoted to Yoga and Pranayam. Sir, what is artificial about pranayam and Yoga? Everything that human being does is artificial. Cars, buses, trains, junk food found in malls, going to space, even the Internet are all artificial. The ancient seers, in their quest for higher existence, discovered that the breath can be used to control the mind. Yoga can be used to discipline the mind and body, apart from helping attain concentration. Sir, if we cannot control the mind and get carried away by the tides of life, we will all go mad. There is too much of tension and stress in society these days. You have a choice. Either get carried away by those tensions and suffer, or take psychiatric medicines to control your mind or do Yoga and Pranayam to control it. Which one is your choice? Yes, yoga is now a big fad with the western world. Note that rationalists in the past had condemned Yoga. Today, its proven. Even Mantra and tantra is being proven. Indians are slaves, they have no self-esteem and respect for their own culture. You are an example of it. Sorry, I don’t mean to hurt you but for 1000 years, if Indians were slaves for the west or some other country, it was not because of spiritual persons, it was because of misinterpretation of spirituality and rituals. Rituals are NOT empty. They have to be understood and full of meaning. Ram Dev is making money but he is also into charity. So is with all Gurus. If millions of people have been benefited by Pranayam and Yoga, how can that be trickery? I can tell you from my personal experience of doing Pranayam that I have benefited immensely. I am not a devotee of Ram Dev or anybody else. But, I know that Pranayam and Yoga help a lot in controlling the mind and keeping the body active. Your experience with Maharishi Mahesh shows that you had a mind block when you attended it. When you hate something, it doesn’t work. Your memory became worse because your hatred was increasing by the day. You wanted to disprove Yoga and Pranayam and when things didn’t work your way, you got emotional and tense. When a person is tense, he is bound to lose his memory.
Regarding the Buddha, the very name and his activities inspire me. It makes me feel nice and calm. That’s what Buddha is doing for me even now. Perhaps, the majority of Buddhists too.
It is you who has to be practical. A world without religion and spirituality would be barren and life would be mechanical and materialistic. Its already happening and people are all slaves - slaves of money and materialism. Communists and the MNCs want people to be their slaves so that they can earn more and more from the labour of people. Communists stand to gain because when everybody is turned into money-making machines, the economy grows. What everybody forgets is that while the economy grows, the society and its health deteriorates.
I suggest you to visit this website= http://TrueSpiritualism.piczo.com . I hope the articles of this website will help you.
I have visited the suggested site and was there for about an hour searching anything factual but failed. It is a pure commerce. If the so-called expert is your Guru, please attain something, and then show me the results.
Ram Bansal
Your skepticism is devoid of substance.You are mired in ignorance.You have may have read bogus literature related with spirituality(probably so-called progressive literature of the communists) but you have not bothered to read authentic literature dealing with Indian philosophy.You even don’t have basic knowledge of tenets of Hindu philosophy.I have know problem with your queries.But your queries do suggest that you know nothing about Indian philosophy even as you claim to be in company of Mahesh Yogi and Osho etc. I am saying so because you suggest” Intellectualism is not in following unproved philosophies but in pioneering what can be logically proved.”.
Let me tell you that Indian philosophy is devoid of logical fallacies.It’s another thing that it has no place for likes of you who are more interested in satisfying their preset mindset.It has been hallmark feature of Indian philosophy to allow the seekers to come up with logical thought patterns.At the same time,like Einstein, it makes it very clear that matters of faith are beyond the realm of intellect.Is that clear to you?
Probably, that’s why it’s better for likes of you to preach market-oriented theories than come out with bogus proclamations in regard with Indian spirituality.Let me also tell what’s first step in direction of attaining spiritual knowledge:Have a proper bent of mind.If you don’t have that,just don’t dare to knock on the door of spirituality.
Once both Asuras and Devas went to have spiritual knowledge.Both came up with different versions of knowledge even as they came to hear the same thing at the same time.That’s the case with you.Like the Asuras you are interpreting things at par with your corrupt mindset.
You have asked to Rohan : Tell me - have you found a single self-realized person on this earth?
You have got the answer and yet you ask again.Ramakrishna Paramhansa,Raman Maharishi, Sri Aurobindo, Swami Viveknanda and Swami Sivananda , to name a few.Sadly ,the list is too long.It’s another thing that it’s very difficult to convince a person interested in calling day a night!!!
”Talking impracticable big things has already ruined this country.”
Let me inform that such impracticable big talks alone have prevented this nation from turning into nation of whores.If we start following hollow advices of people like you we will be mating like dogs in open.So please move out from this country and settle in US amid worshipers of rationality.Just heard an American girl’s interview who boasted that she is barely fifteen but has slept with more than 300 men !!
I hope you will be more than happy in company of such truly progressive people.
I have said what I had to say in regard to definition of spirituality.
You great spiritualist, have lost all your senses and crossed all limits of decency. Please, stop communicating with me.
Ram Bansal
A society that has forgotten higher purposes or does not pursue it in life is bound to look for it in material gratifications. Sex is just one of them. That’s what Arvind seems to say. The west has a liberal mindset with no rules whatsoever, except for certain laws and its not a surprise that adulterous behaviour is rampant there. Teenage pregnancies are also a huge problem. Its because Christianity lost control of the society there and in came the concepts of rationalists, materialists, liberalism, individualism, careerism etc.
Don’t take it personally. He probably refers to the cultural degradation there as a fall out of the combination of rationalism, liberalism and individualism and due to the decline of spirituality.
The problem with likes of Ram Bansal is that they want to hear opinion/views on par with their beliefs.I am sure I have nor said anything personal.I have just quoted an incident from a country that’s ideal representative of beliefs of Mr Bansal.
I just tried to show that what could be the result if we rationality is devoid of spirituality.Intellect devoid of values is of little use.I am no great spiritualist but still aware of the fact that a nation devoid spiritual values will become resting place of people with animal instincts-people interested only in sex and material comforts.
Do you know Rohan that it’s only in India that a wife,despite being tortured at the hands of husband,tries her level best to preserve the sanctity of nuptial knots.A son/daughter try their level best to make their parents happy.I know times have changed and now there are cells for tortured husbands, parents are more comfortable at old age homes but what I am trying to say is that we have so many wonderful rituals/traditions only because we have retained our spiritual essence.
Isn’t it right time to expand our spiritual essence rather than limiting its presence via absurd arguments?
@Rohan
The problem with likes of Ram Bansal is that they want to hear opinion/views on par with their beliefs.I am sure I have not said anything personal.I have just quoted an incident from a country that’s ideal representative of beliefs of Mr Bansal.
I just tried to show that what could be the result if rationality is devoid of spirituality.Intellect devoid of values is of little use.I am no great spiritualist but I am still aware of the fact that a nation devoid of spiritual values will become resting place of people with animal instincts-people interested only in sex and material comforts.
Do you know Rohan that it’s only in India that a wife,despite being tortured at the hands of husband,tries her level best to preserve the sanctity of nuptial knots.A son/daughter try their level best to make their parents happy.I know times have changed and now there are cells for tortured husbands, parents are more comfortable at old age homes but what I am trying to say is that we have so many wonderful rituals/traditions only because we have retained our spiritual essence.
Isn’t it right time to expand our spiritual essence rather than limiting its presence via absurd arguments?
I already have the experience of peace within when I pray sincerely and with all faith, do yoga with all faith, pranayam with all faith and meditate with my willingness. The problem with you is you HATE spirituality and LOVE rationalism. I know the limits of rationalists. Spirituality is something above the intellect.
Stilling of body and mind bring peace. We are forced to ultimate peace by aging, by decay and ultimately by death. If peace is all that desirable, all these things must be desirable. Wahat do we take birth for - stilling our mind and body, or for actions.
In the west, there are absolutely no relationships. Its very fragile and a divorce can happen with or even without any reason.
A practice which is openly preached with a lot of resources, affects our society. It stills bodies and minds of the people making them peaceful, submissive, tolerant to everything including injustice, and passive. So, Process of stilling the whole society is not a personal matter. It has national significance. Indians have been in peace under 1000 years of slavery without a trace of revolt for such practices. It is the vested interests of a few intend to still the whole society for their psychological, political and economic rule over the society.
Ram Bansal
People being of the same spieces will behave the same confronted with soical evils no matter what country we live in
Never criticize people like Bam for trying to sort out these issues in his mind, but realize that the variation or interpretation of things are as varied as the star in the universe and is why we will never live as one
I respect Ram as a person but not his views.
”I respect Ram as a person but not his views.”
......I too have same view Rohan.I too respect Ram as a person but not his views.For better living it’s absolutely imperative that such views are rejected totally.
What raises us above other known sentient beings is our ability to be conscious of our own consciousness. But what does this mean, scientifically?
Consciousness, according to western science, has its roots in the mind, which in turn is seated in the brain. The human brain, with its highly developed frontal cortex, is divided into three distinct parts and includes the cerebrum, cerebellum and the medulla oblongata or stem. The latter is a remnant of our reptilian ancestry with the ocean as its original habitat.
There will always be conscious mind disagreeing on consciousness
India had been a slave country for over 1000 years, a good enough time for evolutionary genetic changes in the mindset. Such a society obeys dictums of others with pleasure, without application of its own mind, because its objective remains peace which comes from stilling body and mind.
Secondly, there had always been a communal divide in the society, one community always supporting the rulers - local or foreign, for their vested interests. In its own nterests, this community had been devising ways to still people’s minds and preach such practices in disguise of a phantom called God, as His words. Their purpose was well served. Whole society remained in peace during 1000 years of slavery.
Even today, politicians and administrators of India are accumulating whole wealth of the nation in their accounts, and the public is at peace with stilled minds.
Somebody has to start a process of awakening the people from this deep slumber of 1000 years so that they start applying their minds. Such pioneers don’t fit the social mold, they are abused, accused, blamed, and even killed.
Yes sir, stilling of body and mind brings peace. I have experienced it myself and can tell you this for sure. But such stilling of the mind and the body should be done with all willingness and it should be with faith and should be a voluntary action. People like you who hate it would never be able to achieve peace by stilling the body and mind or by controlling the breath. Secondly, ageing does not bring any peace. It brings in unwanted impatience and intolerance as we find in aged persons these days. I have seen enough aged persons with a foul mouth. Death is an unknown phenomenon. How do you know that death brings peace? In any case, if Pranayam, Yoga and meditation can give me peace, what is wrong in practising it? Should I live in unhappiness and distress? What are you trying to say sir?
I cannot answer what we take birth for. If I knew the answer, I would be given the Nobel prize. How do you know that we take birth for committing actions? Stilling the mind for a long period of time [Not 24 hours], itself is an action. Meditation and prayers are themselves actions. It takes enormous effort to still the mind and to meditate. Its the most difficult action in the world.
I cannot say that humanity is evolving. Its probably evolving to find an end for itself. We have created far more pollution and enough war armaments to destroy the earth a 1000 times over. Can you say that we are evolving?
You have misunderstood and misinterpreted the entire issue of medication and stilling the mind. Stilling the mind has nothing to do with submissiveness. Its to do with attaining inner peace and the ability to detach oneself from the tensions of outer world. It doesn’t mean one is submissive. If indians as a race are excessively tolerant, and I agree with you, its because of the misinterpretation of the ’Naseeb’ theory. Or, the theory of destiny. ’Karma’ is NOT about inaction. Its about taking action. Meditation is not about inaction but the most difficult action. Slavery in India was due to several reasons, very complex ones and cannot be attributed to religion and spirituality. Indians as a race are very disunited and that was a major reason for this. Even today, we are slaves of the govt. and the bureaucracy, apart from the slaves of the west and its ideology. Indians don’t fight back because of the wrong interpretation of ’Karma’. Karma is action and action without expecting the results. We have the right to action but not the fruits of action. Unfortunately, laziness among people is so strong that they don’t want to take action. So, they took the easy path of inaction by misinterpreting ’Karma’. Sir, you claim to be a rationalist. Have you questioned rationalism and your own thoughts? Have you held your own thoughts to trial?
Have you applied your own mind and are you doing that continuously when you claim to be a rationalist? Have you questioned rationalism itself? You haven’t.
If India was a slave for 1000 years, its a complex reason behind it. Disunity and local fights are another cause. There are many more causes. The society indeed needs to be pulled out of deep slumber but that slumber refers to the misinterpretation of Karma and religion. Communal disputes exist in all countries. America and Britain are still suffering due to racism. Communal disputes happen due to politics. Politicisation of religion. Even language is politicised. Does that mean that we ban all languages?
His writings and anyone’s change no formed minds thoughts ,only people that don’t understand human makeup believe that– very child like
One day will come when contributors in this article will be able to understand the same like they see and feel the sun and the moon from here (the earth).
Would be nice if you can share your valuable experiences about religion and spirituality. My own experiences are simple even though I don’t know much about it. I feel very calm and composed when I perform spiritual practices. I know cases where B.P. and diabetes has come under great control with Yoga, meditation and Pranayama. Its good enough and it justifies the art of yoga, pranayama and meditation.
I know Ratanji you must be smiling after reading this piece.
I have tried my best but I have not been unable to control my laughter after reading such an ”enlightening piece”..ha..ha.
Fashion statement of the hour : ’Spirituality is the opium of masses’...ha..ha
This is an example of a post saying nothing except a few innuendos as to let the reader interpret his thoughts and pulling them to his train of thought ,if one believes somthing come right out and say it
As usual the conscious few talk to the conscious few and believe it has meaning to all
as some have pointed out in response to your thread, distinguishing religiosity and spirituality is crucial. it is obvious your criticism is about religiosity and how it has not achieved what it should have. worse, it has made some descend as human beings in the name of religiosity.
spirituality comes the root word spirit: the self/soul/being. the spirit of every one is innately divine. the means to access that divinity is not rituals but a conscious effort to live our values in its purest form. e.g. to have pure love for all. this means we have good wishes and pure feelings for all while being non-attached.
hence when gurus preach desirelessness, this is what they mean. in the Bhagavad Gita, 2 words sum this up: Nasta Moha, meaning Conqueror of Attachment. as long as we know how to value people and use things, we are fine. when we get this order wrong — value things and use people we are in a spiritual mess.
even if the so called ”spiritual”
people are unable to abide by this, it is obvious they aren’t spiritual.
God is not fictitious. That beautiful being, an Ocean of ALL virtues and inner powers, has to be experienced. I have found God thru the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University. The relationship between God, the Paramatma and the soul, the atma and his child, is unique. To experience that relationship is a fortune. in silence, we can hear Him.
that is what meditation is all about — communicating with God using the language of the souls — silence. it is not blocking our minds but training our minds to be focussed naturally peaceful, loving, happy etc...it is possible you picked up the wrong info from someone who is not a true yogi.
a fear-inspiring God is the creation of man, who projected his negativities unto God. God is everything positive and beautiful. He doesn’t work thru fear, shame, anger and other lesser ways.
having said that, i like your linking spirituality to character. a truly spiritual person will be of impeccable character, God-like in nature or divine. Such a person won’t need ANY external laws to regulate their behaviour.
it is obvious that you equate karma with kismet. this is a misunderstanding cos karma is not destiny. karma is action. if we perform good actions, we reap good outcomes; if we perform bad actions, we reap bad outcomes. it works on a universal good. there is no reason to be inactive. we need to use the concept of karma to accept & face the present situation to move on. we have the intellect to make good decisions for now and the future. one way of seeing a setback is like being stuck in an awful traffic jam. you may not be able to move your car but you have your mind and emotions at your disposal. can’t you plan for the future? think of some happy memories etc...while waiting to move on? anyway, you know the jam will be over at some point in time. it is temporary.
perhaps the best advice comes from the buddha, who says: Be your own light.
and i say: Don’t doubt God. Experience His wonder and let Him guide you.
Om Shanti.
Good feedback.However, like to inform you that in Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna has described tow types of people: One in league with ”Divine Attributes” and the other in league with ”Demoniacal Attributes”.He has stated clearly that knowledge of spirituality is not for the people belonging to this second group.It’s very difficult to convince the blockheads known as ”Moodha”in the language of Lord Krishna.
I think you are wrong when you say that rituals have no meaning. Rituals are not empty as most people misunderstand. They are the most basic part of religion. They are full of meaning provided you understand it in the real sense.
Next, the fear of God was created so that people would follow religion/ rituals/ God etc. Many of the people were illiterates. How could they understand the concept of God when we ourselves don’t understand it? So, atleast by fear, the ancestors hoped that they would follow spirituality and be good to others.
this thread is getting fascinating.
Humanity, as I know it is humankind as a whole and also those traits like kindness, sympathy which are likely characteristics of humane nature. Agreed that humans have the faculty of intelligence - brain - and consider themselves superior to other creations in the universe. As we possess a brain and are able think, it’s how we use it to judge if the teachings of ”spiritual gurus” are to be accepted or rejected. Initially, people may be taken in by hype, but, sooner or later they will realise the gurus for what they are worth.
As far as your take on spirituality is concerned, I’m sorry, but you seem to have completely mixed it up with religion, especially the misinterpreted facet of religion - where religion has become and identity/brand rather than that which teaches of victory of good over evil and humanity. Spirituality has nothing to do with religion. It is more of an awakening, process to harness latent and unused energy within us to help us face everyday trials in our contemporary world. There are different processes - yoga, meditation, tai-chi, reiki etc. These are all practices that help discipline us and enable us to be in harmony with ourselves and our environment.
As far as god being a fictitious unit, please then the speed of light, darkness, cold etc are also fictitious as there is no factual evidence of their existence. [there is a wonderful anecdote between a science teacher who is a non-believer and our former president APJ Abdul Kalam, which brings out an argument in favor of the presence of God.] Belief in God acts on our psyche, it depends upon the person and capacity of faith. Faith can heal people and also give them the courage to do what they might have perceived as impossible. This faith when it goes out of control becomes fanaticism. This is dangerous as people in this category tend to convert all others and try to force their views on others.
Spirituality is not this.
Correct me if I am wrong but I feel that spirituality and religion are connected. Religion helps us to be spiritual and its a path towards spirituality.
I salute you for coming out with such a bold peice of writing. You have very rightly mention about the misconception of so called spiritualism, which is being used as an tool of exploitation by so called gurus. However, I believe that some of breathing excercises under the yoga divert attention from routine and help in relaxing of mind. But, nothing beyond than this. I also believe that talking of realism should not be considered akin to the materialism, Infact, religion promotes more use of materialism than anything else. Most of the commentators raising objections against your article, could not gave any convincing reason to defy your argument. That ancient form was good has no logical. Sir please send me your personal contact to my email. preetinderworld@yahoo.com
Thanks and Regards
His atrocious observations don’t deserve refutation. Indian philosophy or for that matter spirituality salutes realization and rejects over-emphasis on logic.A mature seeker is more interested in spiritual experience or realization than than waste time in intellectual or logical ”gitpit”!!
he was asked to leave ALL his supports by a wise man and learnt his lesson. when he returned after going away from his kingdom, he ruled it as a trustee. all the subjects were happy and his kingdom was prosperous.
like king janak, if we use everything we have as a trustee of God, we will have no attachment to material things but will value them cos they are gifts from the Highest on High.
TRUTH hurts but is always right
After reading some of your replies to my posts and others, i see your fogus is on your borders and flags and not able to concentrate on spirituality and it’s effects on all humans living and dead, blind ,deaf, mentally challenged and on and on
I SORRY THAT I THOUGH YOU OR OTHERS HERE COULD THINK OUT SIDE normal brainwashing and see life from a second old to a hundred years or more and every possible scenario in between- to find truth ,you like everyone else sees you and not others -when you look into a mirror and not see self then you will understand me –take care of your overpowering thoughts of truth
What is spirituality
http://helium.com/items/1334199-what-is-spirituality
wherein I have explained how spiritual pactices work.
i read your link out of respect for you. the fact that you have generated so much interest is cos you have touched a very sensitive chord in everyone who responded. if we aren’t spiritual, we wouldn’t have bothered to defend or advocate such matters.
i am with you and kalyani re: the understanding of spirituality. there is no need even to fit God into it. the buddhist don’t subscribe to a God image and yet their faith is considered a religion and they are seen as spiritual when they walk their talk.
it is possible to be spiritual and religious or religious and unspiritual.you have drawn attention to this.
i do not however agree with all your views and that is ok. we can respect each other even when we differ. it is important that we engage in meaningful, respectful, responsive and non-judgemental dialogue to understand each other. it is such diversity amongst us which makes this world alive and rich. if all instruments played the same notes, we won’t have music.
i feel that not all gurus, religious leaders, and ”spiritual” movement leaders are misguiding people deliberately. some could do out of good intentions but may be facing gaps in their knowledge and/or practice. so, it
is the responsibility of each person to
be discerning about the Truth. a silent
mind is a good starting point. if we have not damaged our conscience with dishonesty, we can trust it as well.
i don’t believe in blind faith either. we should have the courage to look at the scriptures ( i mean ALL scriptures and beyond Hinduism), existing religious practices and rituals, beliefs, traditions, norms etc with fresh eyes and explore how to refine or change them to bring out the best (or inner beauty and divinity) in the human person.
i don’t subscribe to a No God platform cos I have experienced God as a wise, loving and beautiful being. words are inadequate to explain the experience.
i know my reason for existence — to make this world heaven on earth by making my nature as close as possible to my Parent, who we call by many names: God, Allah, Bhagwan, Lord Krishna, Yehovah etc etc...
if every single person on earth lived from the core of his/her dignity & divinity, this world will be Paradise.
i live to experience my divinity, moving from baby steps 20 years ago to adolescent steps now. i have realised this takes conscious efforts, God’s help & support, the blessings and good wishes of others and a very high sense of self worth and self respect. repeated, unthinking behaviour which does not produce the outcome and blind faith is not the answer.
Excellent view.
Sorry for truth and i know what i say is rhetorical but it is out of my mind
There are ones who enjoy the soda with the fizz...those are the enlightened ones;
and there are ones who take a sip and start a debate on the taste of soda, with and without the fizz...those are losers in the making;
and finally, there are the ones who open the bottle and engage in other things, while the fizz goes out fully, then they have nothing left but a bottle of fizzless soda... those are the ignorant ones.
I will say it again you talk from an age related time with only the understanding for the distance you came but not where you will be
You have a tough time with people that aren’t in that narrow scope of life that you are trapped in
We are born with an inherent feeling of spirituality but everyone wants to say they know where it comes from and how it works
Now i suggest you work more on your sensitivity and less on your arrogance and that will make you a happier person
Now, act wisely and climb up... if you don’t want to fall in the well of ignorance.
And, don’t forget to gulp down your soda before the fizz fizzes out and leaves you with nothing else but an empty bottle... empty because if spirituality is gone then there’s nothing left for you.
Before giving someone a piece of mind be sure you have enough to spare ,because you might need it again
Some have morals; some don’t, and you most simply ignore them to hide from self
I am glad that the soda you drank gave you a spiritual moment ,i heard the same from a 5 year old the other day ,on his first experience with soda and it’s fizz
Take a tip from me and open the curtain in front of the window of life and then through the glass, you will see more than just beautiful curtain patterns
Now i will let you run with your little friends in the sandbox of life ,and never forget the last word comes from the person that believes they have the most spiritual truth
What’s actually needed is an open mind!
Curtains are nothing but an excuse for people who have lost the fizz!
Life is not a sandbox for the ones who know life, its a beautiful beach...and spirituality has got nothing to do with truth (and lie)!
I thank Mr Logic for facing the stereotype minds of India which was a slave country for about 1000 years without a sign of revolt. It was because of the fizz people were given to enjoy and forget their realities.
I have further written on spirituality on helium.com and people there have appreciated that.
Local Opinions (67)
Glad to have a serious comment on my write-up. I have nothing to disagree with you, because your analysis is scientific and for smooth harmony in the society, we all desire to have. But my dear, continuity in a society is alright when things are not very bad or looking up for a better future. We repair our houses when we find its major components to be healthy with only minor cracks. But when, things become too rotten, we have to break from routine, look for alternatives, analyse our past mistakes, and concentrate on a major shift from the past forgetting all our traditions and customs and all such other things. In India, spirituality has reduced the masses to nothingness, spiritual exploitation is rampant followed by all sorts of other exploitations. A badly damaged house has to be demolished and built anew. I hope you understand India a little bit.
Thanks for a wise comment.
I appreciate very much your concern for those who are not conscious humans and are in majority on the earth. They need to be taken care of, but sacrificing the rest for their sake is also not advisable. Just thinks, who works for human progress around the globe - conscious 40 percent, or the unconscious 60 percent. It is a relationship like that of driver of a cab and passengers in the cab. True, passengers have to be carried, but the driver’s significance can not be ignored. If passengers are not there, the cab can be kept moving on, but if the driver is perished, passengers can not be saved either.
Spirituality is something that helps you to stay in coordination with the nature thus making life. It is about understanding fellow creatures, not only humans but everything in the creation. Have you ever tried to talk to a bird sitting on your perch? Try this and see what happens...
It never said that leave things alone.. whatever is bound to happen will happen etc... What you mentioned are the preachings from different religions that arose from the retrospective thinking of individuals...
As regards India practising spirituality, INDIA IS FAR BEHIND IN PRACTISING SPIRITUALITY... It is more into religions and castes... Were India to practice spirituality, INDIA WUD HAVE BEEN A HEAVEN... I have noticed the west practising more sprituality than INDIA and the so called spiritual nations: Tibet, China etc.
Hope this clears your confusion. SPIRITUALITY ADDS PEACE TO YOUR LIFE, not by sitting your eys closed with mind diverting elsewhere but by showing respect to each and every element in the creation. On the other hand, it is Religionism that DIVIDES and creates obstacles...
–
Best Regards,
Arun Kumar M.
DreamSkape India ®
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Precisely, no two words are synonym. Similarly, religion and spirituality are not synonym, but these are different faces of the same coin. Spirituality has many widely varying aspects, God and Religion are included in that. From you, I would like to know precisely what this term means in Philipines. It may be a new knowledge to me.
Ram Bansal
I am glad that some people in India are applying their minds on serious subjects like spirituality. My article’s focus is India, where it is misunderstood as something like a link to divinity. You ask some persons, and will have a different meaning from each. I said in my article, ”I shall take its usual meaning without going into etymology of the word”.
Etymologically, spirituality must mean ’beng concerned with essence of life’, as I can make out.
Just take an adjective use of the word ’a very spiritual person’ and ponder what does it mean in India. In Indian context, generally spirituality and religiosity are considered synonyms.
Sorry friend, if I have troubled you by my limited knowledge of the word.
Ram Bansal
Mr.Bansal I agree that it’s difficult to honour the attributes of spirituality in our times.You have cited falling standards.I agree with your observations.
But like to ask you does the presence of a quack can ever tarnish the importance of medical science.The world is playground of good and bad elements.Why are you taken aback by the dominance of bad people? Don’t you know that Pandavas are always lesser than Kauravas?Should that deter Krishna from glorifying the power of Dharma(Religion)?
What are you trying to preach Bansalji? Should be become worshipers of ”Adharma”(Anti-Religion) ?Instead of shedding tears over falling standards of spirituality or for that matter ridiculing the essence of spirituality,it’s time to resurrect the lost glory of spirituality.That will create better scenario.There is no point in cursing spirituality.
If everyone is not honouring the elements of spirituality,what has prevented you from doing so?Why don’t you set better precedents?If you cannot do that then just stop cursing spirituality.Curse materialism.
You have raised very relevant questions in your comment. I am grateful to you to provide me an opportunity to explain my viewpoint.
First, spirituality and such other things are being preached in India since the times of Mahabharat. Tell me a single example who had become really super-human through practising such a practice. This is an endless path designed to keep us involved and be ruled by the designers.
Second, Pandavas were no dharmatma, born out of illicit relationships of their mother, lost their wife in gambling. You wish to be a follower of those.
Krishna was a dirty politician, even worse than our present politicians. He managed to kill great warriors through his trickery.
A person becomes what his diety is. India’s character crisis has seeds in Krishna’s character. Please think coolly, logically, and don’y get blinded by your inherited devotion to anybody. I request to please see the first post of my blog http://indiainperil.blogspot.com which is a result of my last 15 years research on Indian history. Please remember that ’Myths are myths because they are different from realities’.
Ram Bansal
I do believe that all are trying to acquire something.Desire is root cause of man’s existence.You have dealt with very interesting and complex issue.Since I am running short of time, I do not intend to touch that issue.I would you like to read Indian philosophy.Probably,you need to read Swami Vivekananda,Radhakrishnan,Raman Maharishi and ,above all, Sri Aurobindo.I know you don’t like to be under influence of other thinkers.Even I am also against too much reading,especially reading devoid of reflection.
In nutshell, I believe that we all are on this planet called Earth to acquire something.We are product of desires and are chasing one or other desires.May be someone is chasing a beautiful lady,someone is chasing a dream of a having his own home, someone wants to own a car, someone want to be saint,someone want to be a mafia etc..etc..But there comes a time, after many births, to gain real knowledge-the knowledge that deals with art of self-realization.In other words,it’s an attempt on the part of conscious individuals to rise above all sorts of desires.Indian philosophy believes in total liberation.That’s possible.We are all in the process of evolution.
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I see a pattern, but my imagination cannot picture the maker of that pattern. I see a clock, but I cannot envision the clockmaker. The human mind is unable to conceive of the four dimensions, so how can it conceive of a God, before whom a thousand years and a thousand dimensions are as one? (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, 2000 p. 208)
We know nothing about [God, the world] at all. All our knowledge is but the knowledge of schoolchildren. Possibly we shall know a little more than we do now. but the real nature of things, that we shall never know, never. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, Page 208)
I have already stated name of few gentlemen in my comment addressed to Wayne.The list of such individuals is endless.But I feel that likes of Sri Aurobindo, Swami Viveknanda, Guatam Buddha and Einstein ,to name a few, were really super-beings.Now don’t say that even these individuals were under the awe of spiritual myths..ha..ha.
They all were ideal manifestations of spiritual essence or the Great Self.I disagree with your observations related with Lord Krishna.They are childish and absurd.Probably,they don’t even deserve refutation.
Don’t worry.I don’t believe in blind faith.So I don’t the risk of being carried away by the ”inherited devotion”.
Thanks for letting me know your ideals. I beg to differ with you on Vivekananda, who could not save his normal life and perished early. Shri Arvind is worth reading and I draw inspiration from him. My other ideal is Kabir, and no body else from your list. Secondly, I do not agree with you at all on rebirths theory. We born here and get perished here without any thing previous or later. I again request you to please think in terms of reality with your mind and not get driven by human society’s traditional enemies who have been dominating India in every field by hook or crook. Intellectualism is not in following unproved philosophies but in pioneering what can be logically proved.
Do you know that Gautama Buddha, Jesus Christ etc. had got so much spiritual powers that they were able to heal people with a mere touch of their hands? It was called ’touch-healing’ and today’s scientists are doing research on it. Today’s Reiki is based on that. Its all about the power of the mind. Modern scientists don’t believe in the mind at all, let alone in its power. But blind faith in God empowers you and without logic. Rational thinking and objectivity has limitations. I wonder why intellectuals try to do-codify that which is beyond the intellect.
The minute a person realises his self in the deepest states of medication, he becomes self-realised and that’s the end. I feel that it is the communists and the atheists who are trying to degrade spirituality so that they can gain control through the backdoor. Look at Kerala and W.B. and China. There is absolute lawlessness and human rights violation, but, even the media refuses to report them. They report human rights abuses in other states. Kerala and W.B. has the least crime rate because the police in both states simply refuse to book a case involving CPI and CPM cadres.
I cannot comment on Mahabharata and Ramayana because I haven’t read them. But all I can say is that materialism that you are advocating as the aim of life, indirectly, will wreak havoc with humanity. We have seen enough of that. In the name of spirituality and religions, wars have been fought. Doesn’t mean spirituality is bad. I have experienced medication myself, in the most earliest stages and I can say that it gives immense peace. Unlike the short-sighted material quests. Sir, on one hand you claim that you should reply on objectivity alone. On the other hand, you are an atheist. Can you prove me that there is no God? By God, I mean, a higher power. Can you prove that spiritual leaders are corrupt? Many are corrupt. Many are not. Like any field for that matter. So, your own statements are in conflict.
Please be a realist, don’t go by what others say. Tell me - have you found a single self-realized person on this earth? Have you met a single person fully recovered by yoga and meditation practices and without use of medicines? My dear, when we talk of the world, you talk of nature, and when I tell you to be just natural you intend to be artificial in breathing and mind-control. Please think logically. We have been cheated for more than 1000 years under slavery, we have been misguided by the cunning persons to get engrossed in such impractical things and they keep on ruling us. Tell me a single society in the world which has been under slavery for such a long time without raising its head in revolt. Rhere must be a reason for our deadly passivity of 1000 years. Please wake up from the slumber, live in the present. If some Buddha was great 2500 years ago, he is not going to help you today. And if you are sure that his path was right, follow his path, don’t just praise and go the reverse way. Please be practical.
Medical science is experimenting with your yoga and is very selective, while we are all encompassing preachers of practices which we ourselves don’t follow.
RamDev has a business of over 10,000 crores out of his trickery on innocent souls like you.
For your information, I practised spirituality under Maharishi Mahesh for 8 long years and started loosing my otherwise sharp memory. I practised under Rajneesh and found it a mere psychological game and nothing else.
Lastly, my request to you is to see my article on this site - Define SPIRITUALITY - An Open Request and educate me on the subject.
I suggest you to visit this website= http://TrueSpiritualism.piczo.com . I hope the articles of this website will help you.
Your skepticism is devoid of substance.You are mired in ignorance.You have may have read bogus literature related with spirituality(probably so-called progressive literature of the communists) but you have not bothered to read authentic literature dealing with Indian philosophy.You even don’t have basic knowledge of tenets of Hindu philosophy.I have know problem with your queries.But your queries do suggest that you know nothing about Indian philosophy even as you claim to be in company of Mahesh Yogi and Osho etc. I am saying so because you suggest” Intellectualism is not in following unproved philosophies but in pioneering what can be logically proved.”.
Let me tell you that Indian philosophy is devoid of logical fallacies.It’s another thing that it has no place for likes of you who are more interested in satisfying their preset mindset.It has been hallmark feature of Indian philosophy to allow the seekers to come up with logical thought patterns.At the same time,like Einstein, it makes it very clear that matters of faith are beyond the realm of intellect.Is that clear to you?
Probably, that’s why it’s better for likes of you to preach market-oriented theories than come out with bogus proclamations in regard with Indian spirituality.Let me also tell what’s first step in direction of attaining spiritual knowledge:Have a proper bent of mind.If you don’t have that,just don’t dare to knock on the door of spirituality.
Once both Asuras and Devas went to have spiritual knowledge.Both came up with different versions of knowledge even as they came to hear the same thing at the same time.That’s the case with you.Like the Asuras you are interpreting things at par with your corrupt mindset.
You have asked to Rohan : Tell me - have you found a single self-realized person on this earth?
You have got the answer and yet you ask again.Ramakrishna Paramhansa,Raman Maharishi, Sri Aurobindo, Swami Viveknanda and Swami Sivananda , to name a few.Sadly ,the list is too long.It’s another thing that it’s very difficult to convince a person interested in calling day a night!!!
Your skepticism is devoid of substance.You are mired in ignorance.You have may have read bogus literature related with spirituality(probably so-called progressive literature of the communists) but you have not bothered to read authentic literature dealing with Indian philosophy.You even don’t have basic knowledge of tenets of Hindu philosophy.I have know problem with your queries.But your queries do suggest that you know nothing about Indian philosophy even as you claim to be in company of Mahesh Yogi and Osho etc. I am saying so because you suggest” Intellectualism is not in following unproved philosophies but in pioneering what can be logically proved.”.
Let me tell you that Indian philosophy is devoid of logical fallacies.It’s another thing that it has no place for likes of you who are more interested in satisfying their preset mindset.It has been hallmark feature of Indian philosophy to allow the seekers to come up with logical thought patterns.At the same time,like Einstein, it makes it very clear that matters of faith are beyond the realm of intellect.Is that clear to you?
Probably, that’s why it’s better for likes of you to preach market-oriented theories than come out with bogus proclamations in regard with Indian spirituality.Let me also tell what’s first step in direction of attaining spiritual knowledge:Have a proper bent of mind.If you don’t have that,just don’t dare to knock on the door of spirituality.
Once both Asuras and Devas went to have spiritual knowledge.Both came up with different versions of knowledge even as they came to hear the same thing at the same time.That’s the case with you.Like the Asuras you are interpreting things at par with your corrupt mindset.
You have asked to Rohan : Tell me - have you found a single self-realized person on this earth?
You have got the answer and yet you ask again.Ramakrishna Paramhansa,Raman Maharishi, Sri Aurobindo, Swami Viveknanda and Swami Sivananda , to name a few.Sadly ,the list is too long.It’s another thing that it’s very difficult to convince a person interested in calling day a night!!!
I am aware of the wonderful revelations of Vedic Era.We were much ahead in all the fields .We had civilization when other races have not even come in existence.
I agree with your observation that it’s the era of scientific superstitions.Rationality is the new watchword.Ironically , such rationality is producing more and more frustrated and broken souls.Probably, that’s why foreigners are more interested in Indian spirituality after leading a long life in company of rationality.
”Talking impracticable big things has already ruined this country.”
Let me inform that such impracticable big talks alone have prevented this nation from turning into nation of whores.If we start following hollow advices of people like you we will be mating like dogs in open.So please move out from this country and settle in US amid worshipers of rationality.Just heard an American girl’s interview who boasted that she is barely fifteen but has slept with more than 300 men !!
I hope you will be more than happy in company of such truly progressive people.
I have said what I had to say in regard to definition of spirituality.
I have visited the suggested site and was there for about an hour searching anything factual but failed. It is a pure commerce. If the so-called expert is your Guru, please attain something, and then show me the results.
Ram Bansal
You great spiritualist, have lost all your senses and crossed all limits of decency. Please, stop communicating with me.
Ram Bansal
I am not just going by what others say. I am going by what I experienced. I have done meditation, prayers and Yoga for a short duration and in such a short duration, I felt very calm and composed. Yes, I have seen people who have been cured by yoga and pranayam. I have seen many people who had high B.P. and after regular practise of Pranayam, they not only lowered their B.P. but they become absolutely normal. Some such persons have become devoted to Yoga and Pranayam. Sir, what is artificial about pranayam and Yoga? Everything that human being does is artificial. Cars, buses, trains, junk food found in malls, going to space, even the Internet are all artificial. The ancient seers, in their quest for higher existence, discovered that the breath can be used to control the mind. Yoga can be used to discipline the mind and body, apart from helping attain concentration. Sir, if we cannot control the mind and get carried away by the tides of life, we will all go mad. There is too much of tension and stress in society these days. You have a choice. Either get carried away by those tensions and suffer, or take psychiatric medicines to control your mind or do Yoga and Pranayam to control it. Which one is your choice? Yes, yoga is now a big fad with the western world. Note that rationalists in the past had condemned Yoga. Today, its proven. Even Mantra and tantra is being proven. Indians are slaves, they have no self-esteem and respect for their own culture. You are an example of it. Sorry, I don’t mean to hurt you but for 1000 years, if Indians were slaves for the west or some other country, it was not because of spiritual persons, it was because of misinterpretation of spirituality and rituals. Rituals are NOT empty. They have to be understood and full of meaning. Ram Dev is making money but he is also into charity. So is with all Gurus. If millions of people have been benefited by Pranayam and Yoga, how can that be trickery? I can tell you from my personal experience of doing Pranayam that I have benefited immensely. I am not a devotee of Ram Dev or anybody else. But, I know that Pranayam and Yoga help a lot in controlling the mind and keeping the body active. Your experience with Maharishi Mahesh shows that you had a mind block when you attended it. When you hate something, it doesn’t work. Your memory became worse because your hatred was increasing by the day. You wanted to disprove Yoga and Pranayam and when things didn’t work your way, you got emotional and tense. When a person is tense, he is bound to lose his memory.
Regarding the Buddha, the very name and his activities inspire me. It makes me feel nice and calm. That’s what Buddha is doing for me even now. Perhaps, the majority of Buddhists too.
It is you who has to be practical. A world without religion and spirituality would be barren and life would be mechanical and materialistic. Its already happening and people are all slaves - slaves of money and materialism. Communists and the MNCs want people to be their slaves so that they can earn more and more from the labour of people. Communists stand to gain because when everybody is turned into money-making machines, the economy grows. What everybody forgets is that while the economy grows, the society and its health deteriorates.
I already have the experience of peace within when I pray sincerely and with all faith, do yoga with all faith, pranayam with all faith and meditate with my willingness. The problem with you is you HATE spirituality and LOVE rationalism. I know the limits of rationalists. Spirituality is something above the intellect.
A society that has forgotten higher purposes or does not pursue it in life is bound to look for it in material gratifications. Sex is just one of them. That’s what Arvind seems to say. The west has a liberal mindset with no rules whatsoever, except for certain laws and its not a surprise that adulterous behaviour is rampant there. Teenage pregnancies are also a huge problem. Its because Christianity lost control of the society there and in came the concepts of rationalists, materialists, liberalism, individualism, careerism etc.
Don’t take it personally. He probably refers to the cultural degradation there as a fall out of the combination of rationalism, liberalism and individualism and due to the decline of spirituality.
The problem with likes of Ram Bansal is that they want to hear opinion/views on par with their beliefs.I am sure I have nor said anything personal.I have just quoted an incident from a country that’s ideal representative of beliefs of Mr Bansal.
I just tried to show that what could be the result if we rationality is devoid of spirituality.Intellect devoid of values is of little use.I am no great spiritualist but still aware of the fact that a nation devoid spiritual values will become resting place of people with animal instincts-people interested only in sex and material comforts.
Do you know Rohan that it’s only in India that a wife,despite being tortured at the hands of husband,tries her level best to preserve the sanctity of nuptial knots.A son/daughter try their level best to make their parents happy.I know times have changed and now there are cells for tortured husbands, parents are more comfortable at old age homes but what I am trying to say is that we have so many wonderful rituals/traditions only because we have retained our spiritual essence.
Isn’t it right time to expand our spiritual essence rather than limiting its presence via absurd arguments?
@Rohan
The problem with likes of Ram Bansal is that they want to hear opinion/views on par with their beliefs.I am sure I have not said anything personal.I have just quoted an incident from a country that’s ideal representative of beliefs of Mr Bansal.
I just tried to show that what could be the result if rationality is devoid of spirituality.Intellect devoid of values is of little use.I am no great spiritualist but I am still aware of the fact that a nation devoid of spiritual values will become resting place of people with animal instincts-people interested only in sex and material comforts.
Do you know Rohan that it’s only in India that a wife,despite being tortured at the hands of husband,tries her level best to preserve the sanctity of nuptial knots.A son/daughter try their level best to make their parents happy.I know times have changed and now there are cells for tortured husbands, parents are more comfortable at old age homes but what I am trying to say is that we have so many wonderful rituals/traditions only because we have retained our spiritual essence.
Isn’t it right time to expand our spiritual essence rather than limiting its presence via absurd arguments?
In the west, there are absolutely no relationships. Its very fragile and a divorce can happen with or even without any reason.
Stilling of body and mind bring peace. We are forced to ultimate peace by aging, by decay and ultimately by death. If peace is all that desirable, all these things must be desirable. Wahat do we take birth for - stilling our mind and body, or for actions.
A practice which is openly preached with a lot of resources, affects our society. It stills bodies and minds of the people making them peaceful, submissive, tolerant to everything including injustice, and passive. So, Process of stilling the whole society is not a personal matter. It has national significance. Indians have been in peace under 1000 years of slavery without a trace of revolt for such practices. It is the vested interests of a few intend to still the whole society for their psychological, political and economic rule over the society.
Ram Bansal
India had been a slave country for over 1000 years, a good enough time for evolutionary genetic changes in the mindset. Such a society obeys dictums of others with pleasure, without application of its own mind, because its objective remains peace which comes from stilling body and mind.
Secondly, there had always been a communal divide in the society, one community always supporting the rulers - local or foreign, for their vested interests. In its own nterests, this community had been devising ways to still people’s minds and preach such practices in disguise of a phantom called God, as His words. Their purpose was well served. Whole society remained in peace during 1000 years of slavery.
Even today, politicians and administrators of India are accumulating whole wealth of the nation in their accounts, and the public is at peace with stilled minds.
Somebody has to start a process of awakening the people from this deep slumber of 1000 years so that they start applying their minds. Such pioneers don’t fit the social mold, they are abused, accused, blamed, and even killed.
Yes sir, stilling of body and mind brings peace. I have experienced it myself and can tell you this for sure. But such stilling of the mind and the body should be done with all willingness and it should be with faith and should be a voluntary action. People like you who hate it would never be able to achieve peace by stilling the body and mind or by controlling the breath. Secondly, ageing does not bring any peace. It brings in unwanted impatience and intolerance as we find in aged persons these days. I have seen enough aged persons with a foul mouth. Death is an unknown phenomenon. How do you know that death brings peace? In any case, if Pranayam, Yoga and meditation can give me peace, what is wrong in practising it? Should I live in unhappiness and distress? What are you trying to say sir?
I cannot answer what we take birth for. If I knew the answer, I would be given the Nobel prize. How do you know that we take birth for committing actions? Stilling the mind for a long period of time [Not 24 hours], itself is an action. Meditation and prayers are themselves actions. It takes enormous effort to still the mind and to meditate. Its the most difficult action in the world.
I cannot say that humanity is evolving. Its probably evolving to find an end for itself. We have created far more pollution and enough war armaments to destroy the earth a 1000 times over. Can you say that we are evolving?
You have misunderstood and misinterpreted the entire issue of medication and stilling the mind. Stilling the mind has nothing to do with submissiveness. Its to do with attaining inner peace and the ability to detach oneself from the tensions of outer world. It doesn’t mean one is submissive. If indians as a race are excessively tolerant, and I agree with you, its because of the misinterpretation of the ’Naseeb’ theory. Or, the theory of destiny. ’Karma’ is NOT about inaction. Its about taking action. Meditation is not about inaction but the most difficult action. Slavery in India was due to several reasons, very complex ones and cannot be attributed to religion and spirituality. Indians as a race are very disunited and that was a major reason for this. Even today, we are slaves of the govt. and the bureaucracy, apart from the slaves of the west and its ideology. Indians don’t fight back because of the wrong interpretation of ’Karma’. Karma is action and action without expecting the results. We have the right to action but not the fruits of action. Unfortunately, laziness among people is so strong that they don’t want to take action. So, they took the easy path of inaction by misinterpreting ’Karma’. Sir, you claim to be a rationalist. Have you questioned rationalism and your own thoughts? Have you held your own thoughts to trial?
Have you applied your own mind and are you doing that continuously when you claim to be a rationalist? Have you questioned rationalism itself? You haven’t.
If India was a slave for 1000 years, its a complex reason behind it. Disunity and local fights are another cause. There are many more causes. The society indeed needs to be pulled out of deep slumber but that slumber refers to the misinterpretation of Karma and religion. Communal disputes exist in all countries. America and Britain are still suffering due to racism. Communal disputes happen due to politics. Politicisation of religion. Even language is politicised. Does that mean that we ban all languages?
I respect Ram as a person but not his views.
One day will come when contributors in this article will be able to understand the same like they see and feel the sun and the moon from here (the earth).
Would be nice if you can share your valuable experiences about religion and spirituality. My own experiences are simple even though I don’t know much about it. I feel very calm and composed when I perform spiritual practices. I know cases where B.P. and diabetes has come under great control with Yoga, meditation and Pranayama. Its good enough and it justifies the art of yoga, pranayama and meditation.
”I respect Ram as a person but not his views.”
......I too have same view Rohan.I too respect Ram as a person but not his views.For better living it’s absolutely imperative that such views are rejected totally.
I know Ratanji you must be smiling after reading this piece.
I have tried my best but I have not been unable to control my laughter after reading such an ”enlightening piece”..ha..ha.
Fashion statement of the hour : ’Spirituality is the opium of masses’...ha..ha
Good feedback.However, like to inform you that in Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna has described tow types of people: One in league with ”Divine Attributes” and the other in league with ”Demoniacal Attributes”.He has stated clearly that knowledge of spirituality is not for the people belonging to this second group.It’s very difficult to convince the blockheads known as ”Moodha”in the language of Lord Krishna.
Humanity, as I know it is humankind as a whole and also those traits like kindness, sympathy which are likely characteristics of humane nature. Agreed that humans have the faculty of intelligence - brain - and consider themselves superior to other creations in the universe. As we possess a brain and are able think, it’s how we use it to judge if the teachings of ”spiritual gurus” are to be accepted or rejected. Initially, people may be taken in by hype, but, sooner or later they will realise the gurus for what they are worth.
As far as your take on spirituality is concerned, I’m sorry, but you seem to have completely mixed it up with religion, especially the misinterpreted facet of religion - where religion has become and identity/brand rather than that which teaches of victory of good over evil and humanity. Spirituality has nothing to do with religion. It is more of an awakening, process to harness latent and unused energy within us to help us face everyday trials in our contemporary world. There are different processes - yoga, meditation, tai-chi, reiki etc. These are all practices that help discipline us and enable us to be in harmony with ourselves and our environment.
As far as god being a fictitious unit, please then the speed of light, darkness, cold etc are also fictitious as there is no factual evidence of their existence. [there is a wonderful anecdote between a science teacher who is a non-believer and our former president APJ Abdul Kalam, which brings out an argument in favor of the presence of God.] Belief in God acts on our psyche, it depends upon the person and capacity of faith. Faith can heal people and also give them the courage to do what they might have perceived as impossible. This faith when it goes out of control becomes fanaticism. This is dangerous as people in this category tend to convert all others and try to force their views on others.
Spirituality is not this.
I salute you for coming out with such a bold peice of writing. You have very rightly mention about the misconception of so called spiritualism, which is being used as an tool of exploitation by so called gurus. However, I believe that some of breathing excercises under the yoga divert attention from routine and help in relaxing of mind. But, nothing beyond than this. I also believe that talking of realism should not be considered akin to the materialism, Infact, religion promotes more use of materialism than anything else. Most of the commentators raising objections against your article, could not gave any convincing reason to defy your argument. That ancient form was good has no logical. Sir please send me your personal contact to my email. preetinderworld@yahoo.com
Thanks and Regards
His atrocious observations don’t deserve refutation. Indian philosophy or for that matter spirituality salutes realization and rejects over-emphasis on logic.A mature seeker is more interested in spiritual experience or realization than than waste time in intellectual or logical ”gitpit”!!
I think you are wrong when you say that rituals have no meaning. Rituals are not empty as most people misunderstand. They are the most basic part of religion. They are full of meaning provided you understand it in the real sense.
Next, the fear of God was created so that people would follow religion/ rituals/ God etc. Many of the people were illiterates. How could they understand the concept of God when we ourselves don’t understand it? So, atleast by fear, the ancestors hoped that they would follow spirituality and be good to others.
Correct me if I am wrong but I feel that spirituality and religion are connected. Religion helps us to be spiritual and its a path towards spirituality.
What is spirituality
http://helium.com/items/1334199-what-is-spirituality
wherein I have explained how spiritual pactices work.
There are ones who enjoy the soda with the fizz...those are the enlightened ones;
and there are ones who take a sip and start a debate on the taste of soda, with and without the fizz...those are losers in the making;
and finally, there are the ones who open the bottle and engage in other things, while the fizz goes out fully, then they have nothing left but a bottle of fizzless soda... those are the ignorant ones.
Now, act wisely and climb up... if you don’t want to fall in the well of ignorance.
And, don’t forget to gulp down your soda before the fizz fizzes out and leaves you with nothing else but an empty bottle... empty because if spirituality is gone then there’s nothing left for you.
What’s actually needed is an open mind!
Curtains are nothing but an excuse for people who have lost the fizz!
Life is not a sandbox for the ones who know life, its a beautiful beach...and spirituality has got nothing to do with truth (and lie)!
I thank Mr Logic for facing the stereotype minds of India which was a slave country for about 1000 years without a sign of revolt. It was because of the fizz people were given to enjoy and forget their realities.
I have further written on spirituality on helium.com and people there have appreciated that.
Global Opinions (29)
I think that we are here to be a human being and, therefore, we were born in the normal human way with our own human father and mother. We were raised to think and to believe what and how our fathers and our mothers think and believe. We move through our lives carrying these thoughts with us all the way. We track this way and that way and we gather together with other human beings and together we socialize and we communicate and we propagate our genes and our DNA and we form our quasi human civilization. In doing and while doing all of this we insure our humanness for as long as that humanness is to last.
Our duty is to do our best for our loved ones and for ourselves. That duty consists of trying to make the lives we touch better in one way or another, or if we cannot make those lives better in some way, to at least give those lives hope that their state of being will be better someday soon.
Given our education and our experiences and our DNA and given our environment at any one time we may do good or do harm or do nothing at all but no matter what we are doing we are doing that which we believe we either must do or we cannot help ourselves from doing. In other words, we each are doing what we are here to do. We are doing the good, the bad, and all that is left in between to do, too.
IT IS NOT JUST India -people are of the same spieces no matter where them live but the brainwashing of borders and flags make us think different and the stronger in thought will make the weaker think as them ,to change is to wipe out us humans and start over again
We are an animal of emotion and it gets us in all kinds of illogical trouble
Remember only 4 out of 10 humans new of earth or universe —so all of mans conscious thoughts are not true
Take care my fellow conscious HUMAN!
Spirituality does not necessarily have to be related to the concept of God. Religion/God and spirituality are not synonymous.
I PUT NO ONE ABOVE ANYONE ELSE
We came empty and leave empty and the fewer conscious talk to the fewer conscious thinking they speak for all
The only reason i quoted Einstein or anyone else and by the way i find the same kinds of flaws of thinking in them as well making them equal to all the conscious humans ,the reason is humans are so intimidated by intelligence that unless you have a name and letters after your name ,no one takes what you say seriously ,it is a trick of nature to follow the strongest genes to generate stronger genes
I FOLLOW NO ONE AND WANT NO ONE TO FOLLOW ME, AS I WILL LEAD YOU TO NOWHERE LIKE ALL OTHERS
In the animal world their messages are clear short and none confusing
Let a human speak and forever seek
Let a human act and they will be more exact
People being of the same spieces will behave the same confronted with soical evils no matter what country we live in
Never criticize people like Bam for trying to sort out these issues in his mind, but realize that the variation or interpretation of things are as varied as the star in the universe and is why we will never live as one
What raises us above other known sentient beings is our ability to be conscious of our own consciousness. But what does this mean, scientifically?
Consciousness, according to western science, has its roots in the mind, which in turn is seated in the brain. The human brain, with its highly developed frontal cortex, is divided into three distinct parts and includes the cerebrum, cerebellum and the medulla oblongata or stem. The latter is a remnant of our reptilian ancestry with the ocean as its original habitat.
There will always be conscious mind disagreeing on consciousness
”What is real? How do you define real? If you’re talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then real is
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I think that we are here to be a human being and, therefore, we were born in the normal human way with our own human father and mother. We were raised to think and to believe what and how our fathers and our mothers think and believe. We move through our lives carrying these thoughts with us all the way. We track this way and that way and we gather together with other human beings and together we socialize and we communicate and we propagate our genes and our DNA and we form our quasi human civilization. In doing and while doing all of this we insure our humanness for as long as that humanness is to last.
Our duty is to do our best for our loved ones and for ourselves. That duty consists of trying to make the lives we touch better in one way or another, or if we cannot make those lives better in some way, to at least give those lives hope that their state of being will be better someday soon.
Given our education and our experiences and our DNA and given our environment at any one time we may do good or do harm or do nothing at all but no matter what we are doing we are doing that which we believe we either must do or we cannot help ourselves from doing. In other words, we each are doing what we are here to do. We are doing the good, the bad, and all that is left in between to do, too.
Glad to have a serious comment on my write-up. I have nothing to disagree with you, because your analysis is scientific and for smooth harmony in the society, we all desire to have. But my dear, continuity in a society is alright when things are not very bad or looking up for a better future. We repair our houses when we find its major components to be healthy with only minor cracks. But when, things become too rotten, we have to break from routine, look for alternatives, analyse our past mistakes, and concentrate on a major shift from the past forgetting all our traditions and customs and all such other things. In India, spirituality has reduced the masses to nothingness, spiritual exploitation is rampant followed by all sorts of other exploitations. A badly damaged house has to be demolished and built anew. I hope you understand India a little bit.
Thanks for a wise comment.